Sometimes, we take our freedom for granted. Sometimes, our clients remind us how much we have. Paul Conway, of the decision in R. v. Conway, has been detained in hospital for over 25 years after being found not guilty by reason of insanity in 1984 on a charge of sexual assault with a weapon. He wants the world to know about his predicament and has given me permission to share information. He spoke at his last hearing before the Ontario Review Board about what it was like to go shopping outside of the hospital for the first time in 25 years. His response is set out below.
Q. What was it like to go out for the first time to a shopping mall?
A. It was surreal.
Q. In what respect?
A. I’d never been to a mall that size before in my life in this area. I never been -- live in this area before.
Q. You’ve been to a couple of different malls?
A. Well, just the idea of -- the first time I ever went out, I went into a general store across the street. It was surreal. I hadn’t seen it in 26 years or 25 years, eh. Just to walk down a street was surreal without handcuffs on. To walk off the, off the building -- off the CAMH grounds to go across the street about, about, about 20 about 50 feet away to a general store and actually walk into a general store and see all the items up in the store the way I used to many, many years ago.
I mean, that was something that was in a very, very distant past. And you could select what you wanted, or you could look around. There was no pressure on you and, oh, there’s pop; there’s chips; there’s chocolate bars, 50 different types of chocolate bars; and chips and magazines and just all sorts of items, ice cream. It was unbelievable.
There was lottery tickets. You could look at the, you could look and get your own selection of many, many different types of lottery tickets and scratch tickets and sort of gum and newspapers. It was, it was surreal. It was like, it was like just being born again or something, eh, after living in a dungeon up at Penetang
...
Q. I want to ask you...
A. Well, I, I went to those stores. I bought things. I went to the coffee by the Dollar Store. Go down to the Dollar Store. You could go every direction. There was something going on. You could east, west, north, south and every direction. You could go a different day and there was something going on. I’d go over to Timmy’s and buy a coffee there, a doughnut, you know, you know, you know. Like, like, it was quite a thing.
Q. How is it different...
A. There was fresh air, but it’s not the same as going into a pen, a fenced-in yard like a dog, you know. That, that, that fence around the yard, that little, the little airing yard makes, makes a statement. That fence makes a statement. It speaks volumes. It lets you know that you’re unwanted and that you belong in here and that you’re dangerous. You’re looked at as dangerous and I don’t see myself that way in any way.
And then when I walk out, by contrast, onto the public, down the street, Queen Street and other streets and go to the park, the Trinity Park, and, and that, it’s like, it’s like, figuratively, a breath of fresh air. The air is different. The air you breathe is more fresh. The sun is shining brighter. The sights and sounds of the outdoors come alive in where they’re deadened when you go to the, the yard, the airing yard with the fence around it, and you feel freer and you are freer.
And so you got to be responsible with that and I’ve been responsible. I never eloped and I never caused trouble or anything, you know.
Q. And...
A. And I interact better with people in those circumstances. I interact with the people that are with me: the staff person, the clients. And I interact with the public in general better, you know. You seem more friendly. You seem more outgoing. You don’t feel -- your troubles are left behind. I find my troubles -- I know they’re -- I’m still aware of my situation, but my troubles seem, for the moment anyway, to be left behind. And, and I made an agreement with myself that I leave my troubles behind and bring and go out there and -- it’s like a foray into the community, you know. Is, it’s like an oasis in a desert, right.
Q. All right. And how is the environment different...
A. And then when I come back, I feel better.
Q. Right.
A. When I come back to the ward, I feel better. Things that made -- a lot of times, things are bothering me. Just to get up and get started. I look around at the same drab decor and the same claustrophobic feeling of being locked in with all these people and there’s no space, hardly any space. And then you and there’s light shining in your face, those fluorescent lights or whatever those lights are up there in the ceiling, and noises on the ward and smells.
Then you get to leave and you get fresh air, you know. You get wide-open spaces, lots of space. You feel better. When you come back, then you feel better and it carries over when you come back to the ward. The same old picture you were looking at is not as bad. It’s not good, but you feel better knowing that you can go and do it again the next day and the next day and next day.
And then there’s trips, like, that go out of that one-hour period. Like to
And so the thing is that’s very therapeutic for me to be involved in nature.
And when I went to
THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Conway...
MR. CONWAY: No, no, no. It’s a
THE CHAIRPERSON: We’re getting a good...
MR. CONWAY: It’s important to me to explain to you the importance of me going out there. You’re cutting me off and chopping me off at the knees, you know. I almost finished it.
For me to see those weeping willows, oh so many of them at
BY MS. FRASER:
Q. Can I ask you this? Can I ask you...
A. And I went to Casa Loma. I’d never been in a castle before. This was actually a real live castle. We went to an Xmas party there, eh. And it was, like, they had all you can eat. I think it’s documented in my file.
Q. Yes. There’s a -- it’s actually in the hospital...
A. So it speaks for itself, but I just wanted to give some testimony about that.
Q. Okay.
A. And it’s a testament, and it’s a testament, it’s a testament to the, to the fact that if you’re given a chance and you’re responsible with that chance, you know, you, you -- it breathes new life in you. And, you know, the more you get into a routine and you get into the rhythm of a routine, that’s important.
Because if you live on the ward all the time and you begrudge everything, then it’s a rut. And there’s a difference between being in a rut and a mundane pattern of behaviour that’s a rut and feeling like you’re in a routine that you enjoy and you’re in a rhythm with that routine and it breathes new life into you. And I know it’s very important with me and it’s, it’s a roadmap to understanding me. And if you don’t believe me, I can’t, I can’t convince you. But going out into the community, going on outings is fine. And visiting family and going to the Supreme Court of Canada, these are all different experiences that are important to me.
Q. Okay.
A. And participating, and participating in sports was important until I hurt my back.
Q. Right.
A. You know, I played soccer and I played different sports in the gymnasium.
Q. I’m going to interrupt...
A. Feeding the, feeding the squirrels on a daily basis was, like, unbelievable. It was something that is just like pet therapy, my brand of pet therapy. I’d actually talked to them too and they understand me, eh. They understand me the best that they can. They understand that they can trust you. They don’t understand you literally, but they see that you’re offering them food and they can trust you. Come right up to you and eat out of your hand and trust you and there’s a rapport there. They, they actually get to -- there’s a rapport there that you can’t even have with most people.
Q. Now...
A. Is there anything else?
Q. In terms of your experiences at other mediums-secure facilities, what’s the -- what does CAMH offer geographically in terms of the community surrounding it versus other facilities like
A. Oh, they’re out in the sticks. They’re out in the sticks. The other places are out in the sticks. I don’t want to be out in the sticks no more. I like to be in nature, you know. And it may seem like a paradox or whatever, but, you know, so be it then. My life is a paradox. I said that at 18 years old. One of the most philosophical things I ever came up with that applies: my life is a paradox, right. It’s a paradox.
And, like, so it seems like on its face you like so much -- should be out in nature and that. True enough, but, like, I don’t want to be in some hick town or out in the sticks. I grew up in a hick town. I don’t like it. Everybody knows your business. Everybody’s -- like, there’s nothing exciting. It’s a nice place retire or grow up as a kid or retire, raise a family, but I don’t want to be stuck it in the sticks. All those places are out in the sticks:
TO,
THE CHAIRPERSON: We, we don’t need to...
MR. CONWAY: ...a little sub place, a grocery store. There’s all these things. I’m trying to explain to you the collage and the importance of it to me that opposed to a place like a small town where you might get a general store and then a quarter of a mile, half a mile away, you might get some other little drop-in restaurant or whatever and maybe some little place where you can buy, a Dollar Store half a mile down. Houses are far apart.


